Curse

Martin Alvito · Sep 29, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Players would understand that prot > heal if we still taught our children problem solving skills and mathematics. But we don't.

Further, there's a major selection effect in PUGs. Good players like playing with good players, so they become friends with other good players and play with them more often than not. As a result, PUGs usually contain several idiots that can't get into good groups because they are failures.

Therefore, you should expect the standardized PUG build to be suboptimal (since it has to be something idiots can play) wherever you go. You should also expect to be forced to contend with idiots for leadership of your PUG.

Posting about it won't solve your problem. The problem players in a PUG either don't read forums or are too stupid to understand them. Your best bets are to either develop relationships with good players, or learn to fail less so that good players will have you.

Rushin Roulette · Sep 29, 2008, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by daze

Yep. Pretty much. In my experience on this earth, i have realized that the majority of the earths population is mentally handicapped. And most people cant count the fingers on their own hands. I just prey for natural selection to take these people off the planet.

Oouch... please stop thinking like that... The human race would put itself on the endangered species list if that were so. Darwinism doesnt work on Humans... most of them are too dumb to kill themselves reliably.

But back to the OP...

One heal one prot is always better than 2 HB monks. This however only works if the prot monk actually knows what hes doing. Protting isnt too hard, but more than enough mess even that up.

Thats why 2HB monks will always be looked for in PUGs... the basic idiot switch for the average player (please reffere to the first part of my post for deffinition of average PUG player).

Pleikki · Sep 29, 2008, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parson Brown

So, a heal/prot combo > 2 HB monks in an average pug.

yea and Heal + Rt or Para support > heal & prot combo

glacialphoenix · Sep 29, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

"Prots get stripped!" the monk answers annoyed while spamming healing breeze and maintaining Healer's Boon...

AHAHA. Thank you for the laugh.

Quote:

Therefore, you should expect the standardized PUG build to be suboptimal (since it has to be something idiots can play) wherever you go.

And this. This is not to say that you can't find decent players in PUGs - but they might be running subpar builds just for the lolz. If you're a good player and just PUGging for the lolz, you probably wouldn't bother arguing with the leader about the bar.

And, of course, in a team with people you play with frequently, you can mod your bar to work better with each other's. You can sit there and work things out if something goes wrong, and then you can try again. This is not likely to happen with a PUG, because 1. you don't know how good the other players are; 2. the tendency is for people to /ragequit once the party fails. Therefore people ask for the most idiotproof method, even if it is subpar. Hence, HB. Of course, this doesn't stop people /ragequitting if/when the party fails.

Skyy High · Sep 29, 2008, 10:01 PM // 22:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

yea and Heal + Rt or Para support > heal & prot combo

Party-wide damage reduction is not a full substitute for a targeted Prot Spirit or Spirit Bond. Nice, yes, but if your war is going in to draw aggro he needs more than a TNTF!, and Save Yourselves! won't last until you can get back in shout range.

Gregslot · Sep 30, 2008, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

What are you kidding me?
Do you think people gravitate to these builds because they're stupid, slow-to-adapt morons that won't give up ursan habits, or because people generally flock to the best, strongest, most efficient, most innovative builds that truly test their skills as a gamer? Seriously think about it, are you really trying to suggest that any average GW player, hell any average person in the world, is dumbfoundingly stupid?

If you think prot monk is going to outclass a 2nd HB, you're sorely mistaken... But maybe you're the kind of person that would even promote hybrid monk builds as well...
Well let me hit you with a little slice of GW logic here. Look, it's a pretty damn simple concept to grasp, so it's no wonder that the majority of the community has caught on, leaving people like you in the dust. If the red bar isn't going up, then the monk isn't worth his party spot.
There. Done. Simple as that.

Prot monks aren't pushing redbars, so their spot is better off reserved for an HB that can actually show some visable benefits. And if you try to argue with that, you’re arguing with the collective consensus of the GW population, as evident by the current practice of running two HB monks in the norn point farm.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA!!!!
Thank you!!! I needed that laugh so badly!
You sir, are a winner!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian979

Here's a little slice of logic for you. If the red bars don't go down, they don't need to go back up.

Well this basically counters it, so no need to answer it anymore

And following your line of thought, we dont need the +100 armor from "Save Yourselves" and "There is Nothing to Fear" is a waste of 15 energy.

Age · Sep 30, 2008, 12:58 AM // 00:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

What are you kidding me?
Do you think people gravitate to these builds because they're stupid, slow-to-adapt morons that won't give up ursan habits, or because people generally flock to the best, strongest, most efficient, most innovative builds that truly test their skills as a gamer? Seriously think about it, are you really trying to suggest that any average GW player, hell any average person in the world, is dumbfoundingly stupid?

That is a pretty arrogant statment coming from a person like you comparing a game to the real world of humanity.The Police and Doctor analogy is not great one more like infantryman and field medic in the army.Those two get paid the same.

shru · Sep 30, 2008, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loot Junkie

How come shru gets a helmet and a drool cloth and i don't? Damn this game is unfair!

Cuz i gotsta luk stylish on mai furst weak bak Loot.

daze · Sep 30, 2008, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by shru

Cuz i gotsta luk stylish on mai furst weak bak Loot.

Very nice.
12 char

Clarissa F · Sep 30, 2008, 05:09 AM // 05:09

lol, the troll made the thread!

Ask guys patrolling Iraq if they prefer protection or healing. I think they'd rather not get wounded than get good treatment afterward.

cataphract · Sep 30, 2008, 06:29 AM // 06:29

I don't see how the occup... liberation of Iraq has to do anything with this.

Tyla · Sep 30, 2008, 06:34 AM // 06:34

It's a metaphor.

It's simple. As Damian said, "If red bars don't go down they don't need to go up."

You could bring the army into this, and that is actually a good metaphor. People don't want to get wounded then healed, they would rather just not get wounded.

Div · Sep 30, 2008, 06:49 AM // 06:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by zelgadissan

Divine's posts always make me smile.

There is no need for 2 HB monks. There is no need for 1 HB monk. There is no need for HB in 99.99% of the game and the only reason I'm neglecting the .01% is because I'm sure somebody knows more about the game. Certainly not shru.

HB monks are good at getting DPed out in under 8 minutes in GvGs...and brainlessly button-mashing big heals while not even paying attention to the game.

Lalamika · Sep 30, 2008, 07:05 AM // 07:05

I have to agree that two hb monks is a bit overkill. Usually when I'm playing on my monk, I go hb and my prot hero goes prot with zb and aegis on the bar as well. That combo has always worked effectively for me as long as my hero doesn't cast himself into oblivion. *shrugs* Pugs are funny that way though.

bungusmaximus · Sep 30, 2008, 07:35 AM // 07:35

I prefer spamming party heals when a PUG is not paying attention to positioning. If people ball up in AoE prot won't save you, try PS-ing 4 people at once :P. Dual HB will suit PUGS better simply because it's more idiot proof. Staying alive is not just the responsibility of the monk.

I tried to introduce exotic builds in tomb of primeval kings back then when people still played that. Lots of attempts failed because people didn't play the builds right, but when they did, we usually finished way faster then the average B/P/orders team.

enter_the_zone · Sep 30, 2008, 07:43 AM // 07:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by bungusmaximus

I prefer spamming party heals when a PUG is not paying attention to positioning. If people ball up in AoE prot won't save you, try PS-ing 4 people at once :P. Dual HB will suit PUGS better simply because it's more idiot proof. Staying alive is not just the responsibility of the monk.

This is why pugs are /fail...

Don't pug, take 2 WoH Hybrid Prots Heroes, a damage dealer hero and hench instead.

Squishy ftw · Sep 30, 2008, 07:47 AM // 07:47

pugs are bad

pug monks are bad

bad pug monks need easy to run button bash builds

bad pug monks run hb

bungusmaximus · Sep 30, 2008, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by enter_the_zone

This is why pugs are /fail...

Don't pug, take 2 WoH Hybrid Prots Heroes, a damage dealer hero and hench instead.

I wouldn't call it fail tbh. It's a method for the lesser talented players to achieve their goals, and it works. When I was among that group I joined bad PUGS too, but since I didn't know any better I didn't care as long as it got the job done.

Nowadays I'd rather drink emulsion then go through that again ofc. but that's another story

.

tmakinen · Sep 30, 2008, 07:49 AM // 07:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalamika

Usually when I'm playing on my monk, I go hb and my prot hero goes prot with zb and aegis on the bar as well.

That's kind of suboptimal because pushing red bars up is (almost) all about reaction in which AI beats human just because of effectively zero reaction time or lag, and protting is (also almost) all about anticipation in which every human handily beats AI just because the AI cannot anticipate. Thus the optimal combo is human protter and hero healer.

bungusmaximus · Sep 30, 2008, 07:59 AM // 07:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmakinen

That's kind of suboptimal because pushing red bars up is (almost) all about reaction in which AI beats human just because of effectively zero reaction time or lag, and protting is (also almost) all about anticipation in which every human handily beats AI just because the AI cannot anticipate. Thus the optimal combo is human protter and hero healer.

Lol yeah when I run prot heroes and i really NEED to run them I usually operate them manually (Put PS on the tank myself for example). Therefore I usually run healer N/Rt or heal monks and use party wide prot such as wards or Watch Yourself.

Party wide damage mitigation is king in PvE, and healers can easily mop up the rest (when you use NPC's that is). Some areas in the game have too much enchant strips to begin with anyways, so I would go with 'prots' like resilient weapon (grossly underrated) or weapon of warding anyways.